Interview Transcript
Interview
Dr. David Adcock with Dr David Sencer
Transcribed: January 2009 | Duration: 0:23:51
Interviewer: I am Dr. David Sencer, I am interviewing David Adcock.
It's the 3rd of March and we're in Studio-B at CDC.
Welcome, David.
David Adcock: It's good to be here, Sir.
Interviewer: Tell me where you're from.
David Adcock: I am from Kannapolis, North Carolina and went to school
there, and it was interesting, I went to Pfeiffer College, a
very small Methodist school, and graduated on a Thursday and
started at CDC the following Monday. That was in 1965 - May of
1965.
Interviewer: Why did you call CDC?
David Adcock: That's what was interesting. I didn't. That was a point in
time when Vietnam was heating up pretty good and everyone was
taking their single/senior[inaudible0:01:01] trips to Vietnam
and the interviewer who came in from CDC, no one was talking to
him; and the coordinator for the interviews asked me to simply
go in and have somebody for him to talk to. I thought that it
was very interesting. I filled out the paper work, sent it in. I
was sitting in Psychology class, got a note to come to the door,
and that was to call Washington instantly. I had a job with CDC.
Interviewer: And where was the job?
David Adcock: It was in Shelby, North Carolina. I started there as a
Venereal Disease Investigator and went from Shelby to
Greensboro; Greensboro to St. Louis; St. Louis to Jackson,
Mississippi, changed to the Immunization Program at that point,
went to Oklahoma and stayed there for seven years before
returning to CDC.
Interviewer: And when you came back to CDC-physically?
David Adcock: That was in 1976 and I left the immunization program and
joined the Laboratory Communications Group in laboratory
training and was a consultant in Laboratory Methodologies, and
particularly, management.
Interviewer: When did you go to Southeast Asia?
David Adcock: That occurred in August of 1974, and it was very
interesting, I had wanted to go for some time. I had tried to
get to Africa and that didn't pan out for me and the call did
come, and I had just a number of days to get my act together,
get my clothing together and leave. I left my wife and three
young kids in Oklahoma for almost 100 days and took off to
India.
Interviewer: And when you got to India, what was your first
impression?
David Adcock: The smell of curry was overwhelming. I was fascinated with
the number of people, the clothing they were wearing, the modes
of transportation, and the job at hand, I thought was
overwhelming with that many people that close together.
Interviewer: What was your job in Delhi?
David Adcock: I was assigned to the State of Bihar, India, the largest
State in India-Northwest India, and I was a Management Officer
for the Smallpox Program in Bihar.
Interviewer: In Patna?
David Adcock: In Patna.
Interviewer: What did that entail?
David Adcock: My responsibilities included getting the Docs in, the
investigators in; 147 of them. I was over the entire motor pool,
making sure the transportation was available for everyone, that
they had adequate housing, that they did in fact, get paid, and
setup the monthly meetings that occurred in Patna. That's when
Bill Foege came out from Delhi to hold these meetings and I
think D.A. Henderson was at one of those meetings also.
Interviewer: Who was the Management Officer in Delhi at that
time?
David Adcock: Interesting question. I frankly do not remember.
Interviewer: Tony Scardachi[inaudible name0:04:36]?
David Adcock: I think so.
Interviewer: It was either Tony or Larry Sparks?
David Adcock: Larry Sparks. It was Larry Sparks. This was between August
and January of '75.
Interviewer: Were you in charge of pay rolling the Indian
employees too?
David Adcock: I was Sir, which got to be very interesting because I
would have people lining up outside the hotel, looking for jobs
from the moment I came out. So I always had an entourage around
me, wanting to drive the vehicles, and quite frankly, to protect
me. The payroll was always very interesting. On one occasion, I
was requested to fly from Patna back into New Delhi and
literally, picked up the payroll in Rupees in duffle bags, and I
didn't think anything about it. I had no protection from the
embassy back to the airport and flew back into Rajgir at that
point; and when the plane landed, there was a large military
contingency on the ground. I had no idea what was going on. So I
was very slow about getting off the plane and I came off with my
two duffle bags, and they were there to protect me with the
amount of Rupees I had with me, and I did not consider it
dangerous at all. It tells you where my mind was at that point.
Interviewer: I rode from Delhi to Patna with Dr. Foege one time on the
train when he had his two duffle bags and I remember in one of
the little stops that we made along the way, all of a sudden,
people on the outside were shaking the train, there was a
student unrest at the time, and I'll admit, I was frightened.
David Adcock: I don't know why I didn't even think about that, but the
way I was traveling with the backpack and the duffle bag, it
seemed to fit with the kids who were roaming around India and
going to Patna, so it kind of got my attention big time at that
point. What's really interesting to think back on it, the Choki
Guards, the guards who were with me all the time were being paid
like Three Rupees a day, that was Twenty-four Cents at that
point in time and I had two duffle bags of Rupees. It could be a
death defying issue if you were caught with them.
Interviewer: Did you get out in the field much or were you limited to
Patna?
David Adcock: Unfortunately, I did not. I did go out a couple of times
with Dr. Larry Bryant and saw several of the villages and got to
see a number of active smallpox cases. I know in one particular
village I was in ...Sadat[inaudible name0:7:26], my interpreter,
could find no one who could speak a dialect that he could
understand. So, I was just walking around the village and found
a guy with a water buffalo on the backside of the village, who
had the most beautiful handlebar mustache I think I'd ever seen,
it was waxed perfectly, and he spoke the King's English
perfectly. He had been in the British military and he became our
interpreter. It was also in the very same village, there was a
young lady who had died. She had very aggressive smallpox and
was asking for anything. I only had aspirin, and she died that
afternoon [teary voice].
Interviewer: Were you a part of the campaign that prevented other
people from dying?
David Adcock: Yes. [Pause] I think the smallpox effort in India and
worldwide is almost beyond comprehension that we achieved what
we achieved. The number of people moving, going back to
religious events was almost uncontrollable. The fact that this
team, this very small team of very dedicated people, both from
U.S., Europe and other parts of the world who came in, lived
under unimaginable conditions in some cases were able to
literally pull it off; to make it happen, is something I don't
think the world will ever forget.
Interviewer: I think the inspiration of several of the leaders had a
lot to do with it. That Dr. Foege's dedication, his belief and
accomplishment, I think was one of the major parts of the whole
effort.
David Adcock: Bill had a presence about him, about the smallpox. There
was no doubt in his mind whatsoever that we would accomplish our
goal. The significant problems we had, transportation, paying
the people, certainly giving our own staff adequate medical care
was a big issue. But it was an event that I think the public
health advisers, the Docs at that time, it wasn't the job; it
was the mission which was all critical; and looking back on it,
I hate that I cannot remember everyone I worked with then, but
the many events, the fact that in my position, they were trying
to keep the motor pool going, the equipment up to what it should
be, we had like 125 Mahindra & Mahindra Jeeps, we had 44
motorcycles, and it got to be a real problem for us to maintain
this equipment. Some of the things we did to make the jeeps work
for example: a World War II junkyard was in Patna; there were
hundreds of U.S. World War II variety relief jeeps there, the
Mahindra & Mahindra jeeps were the exact duplicate; in fact, the
stamping equipment was transferred from Toledo[0:11:25], Ohio to
Bombay, and that's where the jeeps were made.
I would literally go to the U.S. jeep junkyard, and it was
simply an open field, and take all starters, springs, and put
them on new Mahindra & Mahindras, and they worked. We were
fortunate to establish a relationship with the Loyola Institute.
It was a Catholic organization that was open to kids who had no
place to go and they were training these kids as machinists, as
mechanics, autobody repair people, and we could take a jeep in -
because the monthly meetings occurred over a weekend usually,
two or three days, so all this equipment came in very quickly.
These kids were able to take these jeeps,
recamber[inaudible0:12:12] springs, replace parts, get them
running again, even to the point of doing body work and
repainting in a period of three days and getting them out to
keep our guys in the field and operational. It was truly amazing
to see what these kids could do, and it was a good relationship
for us because they were able to take the money we gave them for
the repair to support their institution.
Interviewer: And learn a trade?
David Adcock: And learn a trade. You know, it was interesting to go
there and we always had hot tea. The sugar was always sitting on
the table. It was always covered in ants. I grew a mustache so I
could strain the ants out of my tea while I was drinking it.
Interviewer: When you came back from India, was it a letdown?
David Adcock: The intensity and the overpowering dedication to the
mission and the fact that you could see immediate change going
on, it was a letdown. I returned to Oklahoma where I was the
Director of Immunization Program there and to know that what we
were doing for the American people, the young people in
providing the immunizations, to have seen what I saw in India,
the rampant disease, the fact that immunization was not in place
there effectively, particularly for polio, and to know there are
people who had this at their finger tips and it's actually taken
for granted. It was just one of those almost mundane things you
do, but to know what the end result was, got to be a very strong
mission for me and it continues today.
Interviewer: You would do it again?
David Adcock: In a heartbeat. There are several things that I would like
to do, to go back and see what Patna looks like today. I did
have the advantage over many of the people who were assigned to
the field. I lived in a three-star hotel and you had to have
been in Patna to see what that really means. But I did have a
bath. I was able to go down and have food in the lounge and a
number of people who I worked with very closely, Roy Mason who
was from England who had been in India since World War II, he
had never returned home, got to be a very, very good friend and
he was the knowledgeable part of what I was doing in Patna as a
Management Officer because he had the insight and knowledge of
working directly with the country that I did not. So when
particular issues came up, I would go to Roy and say, "Roy, how
do we solve this?" "Come on, Dave;" and we'd go do it. I have
lost touch with him. Jay Smith from CDC was there also, I think
he was assigned to Katmandu and he would come down occasionally
and we would work through -
Interviewer: For free?
David Adcock: Yes. But to bring all these KSAs together at that point in
time and see how it all fit, made the world a much smaller place
for me, and it has continued to get smaller over time.
Interviewer: Have you read the book E.M. Forster's A Passage to
India?
David Adcock: Yes, Sir. I have.
Interviewer: It was written in Patna and I think it was written in that
hotel that you stayed in.
David Adcock: Ah!
Interviewer: Did it have balconies that looked over a little
river?
David Adcock: No. This was downtown and it was directly over the
Mahindra & Mahindra Dealership and has only about three floors
of it, and it was quite small. It was interesting that we had
the sounds of India, the music was 24/7 and it never stopped. I
was surprised one late night, I was awoken by the sound of large
bells, it sounded like church bells, and got up and went to the
window, and a caravan of elephants were coming down the main
street of Patna. In a straight line, the bells were tied over
their backs and they kept them in pace to step. Each time they
stepped, the bells would swing from one side to the other and I
had never seen anything like that-this was a National Geographic
moment and I had no camera.
Interviewer: That time in India is something.
David Adcock: With the way the average citizen in Patna had to work, the
difficulty in finding work, simply finding adequate food in many
cases was a problem; and I never got over the fact that the
number of people who would stand around the front of the hotel,
begging when I came out. It was a situation that you could not
encourage it because the crowds just got larger. But even the
vehicles we had, they held the World Health logo on the side of
them, got to be an issue because every time they were parked or
we went some place, the crowds would gather because they knew we
had money and I suppose, we're almost easy marks because of
where we came from, our affluence there. It was hard to deal
with over a period of time. I think it took me maybe two months
to realize that I had gone through culture shock and had
actually started to assimilate somewhat there. At that point in
time, it was a mind-boggling experience, you might say, to
realize that you have lived here this long and you've seen so
much change in such a short period of time, and so much could be
done. It was truly a Third World involvement at that point and I
would love to go back and see what has changed now.
Interviewer: I haven't been in India since the mid-80s, but even then,
you began to see the changes of billboards, advertising, spas,
and fat farms, and -
David Adcock: It was interesting, and upon my return from India, I went
back to Oklahoma in the Immunization Program and then
transferred to CDC in '76 with the Laboratory Program. I was
able to go back to India in about 1984 and worked in New Delhi
and Bombay and taught Laboratory Management to the State
Laboratory personnel at that point. At that time we were working
with the United States Public Health Laboratory Association and
several of the State Health Officers and Laboratory Directors
went with us. But the status of their laboratories; the old
buildings they found themselves in, the equipment they were
using, and to finally realize that much of their glassware was
literally stacked out back in the open, the facility we taught
in was an old British military barracks type room, the lighting
was extremely poor, no air-conditioning, and you wondered about
the quality of laboratory result they got; which were quite good
by the way.
Many of the laboratorians were trained in Europe, particularly
England and came back, had all the current technology, but not
the equipment in which to use it. So it was interesting to
identify what their needs were, what we could help them with in
obtaining from our side, and yet, to work with them particularly
on the State Public Health laboratory side, guys who'd been
there working in this country to help them expand their horizons
as to how they could not only test, but manage the results of
their testing for the nation.
Interviewer: In 1964 I believe, Dr. Roger Feldman was assigned to the
Christian Medical College in Vellore, his major responsibility
was to develop a Virology Laboratory; and he developed a
laboratory on the roof of another building that was totally
Indian. There was not a piece of equipment, not a supply that
could not be obtained in India and that was an accomplishment.
David Adcock: It was amazing to see what the Indians could do for
themselves. They are brilliant people. In most cases, well-
educated and they were always searching for education, if they
simply had the place to work and to do. I know in getting
laboratory supplies, we worked with a glass blower and he and
his family had done this forever, and we simply told the guy
what we wanted, how we wanted the design, and in some cases we
had the exact example and he could duplicate it almost
perfectly, and it was all done by hand. It was amazing, and the
cost of it was in my U.S. thinking, free for all practical
purposes. But yes, they do have the skills by which to do what
needs to be done. As far as the equipment goes, it was adequate
for the job. It was not a Zeiss microscope and such, but it was
more than adequate for what they were doing at that point in
time.
Interviewer: Are you a different person because of your
experience in India?
David Adcock: Absolutely. What India has done for me as an individual,
have been mind boggling to see what the other part of the world
looked like, to understand that we in this country take so many
things absolutely for granted, to say nothing of public health
or what this institution does for them at CDC, and to see how
two aspirins, not much, but it did make a difference-could do
there. How such a little effort on our part would be such a
monumental result there is huge; and I think CDC has been on the
forefront of this, particularly on the health side, for an awful
long time and it cannot quit. It's got to move forward.
Interviewer: Thank you, David.
David Adcock: It's been my pleasure, Sir.
Interviewer: It was a good interview.
David Adcock: Thank you.
[End of Audio - 0:23:50]
David Adcock Oral History
David Adcock interviewed by
David Sencer
March 3, 2008
David Adcock, served with the Smallpox Eradication Program in Bihar, India from August 1974 - January 1975 as a Management Officer. David describes his responsibilities to get doctors and investigators into the country, arranging their transportation, housing, and monthly meetings in Putna, doing payroll for Indian staff, and witnessing the death of a woman from severe smallpox. He reflects on the importance of the smallpox effort and the practice of immunization. "It wasn't the job. It was the mission."
