Interview Transcript
This is an interview with Joan Thompson about her activities in the West
Africa Smallpox Eradication Program. The interview is being conducted at
the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, on July 14, 2006. This is
during the 40th anniversary celebration of the launching of the Smallpox
Eradication Program. The interviewer is Linda Harrar.
Harrar: Would you describe your early life, where you were born and
your education through high school and college?
Thompson: I was born in North Dakota, in a small town. My father was an
educator, and so I actually lived in 3 different small towns in
North Dakota, but I spent most of my time in a town of about 600
from age 8 through high school.
Harrar: And so you went to high school in North Dakota.
Thompson: I went to high school in Portland, North Dakota.
Harrar: I understand that you're married to Dr. David Thompson.
Thompson: Right.
Harrar: So how did the 2of you get involved in the smallpox program?
Thompson: Well, we were interested in working overseas, both of us,
before we even met and were married. When he was doing his
internship, he applied to the Public Health Service; he was
thinking about maybe working on a reservation in preparation for
going overseas. It was during the Vietnam War, and there were no
positions available.
Then we applied to the Peace Corps, and there was nothing
there. And David said, "Well, I guess I'll be going to Vietnam."
But he didn't want to go to there, and even more than that, we
were looking already at going overseas and thought that would be
a good thing.
And then totally out of the blue, he got a telegram one
day that read, "Are you interested in going to Africa?" And we
didn't know what it was for, not anything. He just responded,
"Yes." And then he got a phone call, and D. A. Henderson [Donald
A. Henderson] came to Minneapolis to interview us. There were, I
think, 3 spots left to fill, and D. A. was interviewing I don't
remember how many people. Dave was just finishing his
internship, and we were extremely happy when we were accepted.
Harrar: Who sent the telegram?
Thompson: It must have been somebody in the Public Health Service. I
can't remember. I just remember he came home from work and he
said, "You'll never believe what I got today."
Harrar: Wow, amazing.
Thompson: So it was a very amazing story of how we ended up in this
program. And it really changed our whole lives.
Harrar: Oh, I bet.
Where were you living at the time that you were accepted?
Thompson: Indianapolis.
Harrar: And so you get the telegram and you have the interview, and
then he's told, "You've got the position." What next?
Thompson: He was in the internship that finished the end of June.
Training down here in Atlanta started the beginning of July, so
there wasn't much time. We just made plans to go. We were very
excited. Our families were excited for us.
Harrar: Did you have children at the time?
Thompson: We had one very young son, newborn practically. He was 6 months
when we came to Atlanta for training.
Harrar: So when you were in Africa, where were you stationed?
Thompson: Initially we were in eastern Nigeria. We flew into Lagos, and
there was some training there. Probably one of my vivid memories
is of when we were staying in an apartment. Dave was off from
early in the morning till probably 5 in the afternoon. I don't
remember exactly, but all day. And I was really sick. I got
traveler's diarrhea. Our baby was about 8 or 9 months old by
then. I just remember lying on the floor in that apartment and
closing all the doors so he couldn't get into anything, just
thinking, how am I going to survive? And Dave felt like he
couldn't stay home. He had to be at this training. That was my
introduction.
Fortunately, I had been in Africa once before, so it
wasn't like totally new.
Harrar: So Dave went out every day. So tell me, other than being sick
when you got there, what did you do every day? How did you spend
your time?
Thompson: Well, I was sick for 3 or 4 days, and then I would just take
the baby and go out walking. It was hard to find time to fill
the days, during those early days.
Harrar: So you were living in a small apartment. Is that where you
stayed the entire time?
Thompson: No. We were just there a matter of days. And then we went to
Enugu in eastern Nigeria.
Harrar: And you were there for how long?
Thompson: We were there for about 8 months. I can't remember if we
arrived there in September or October. We were evacuated at the
end of June.
And when we arrived at that airfield and got off the
plane, the airfield was ringed with men with machine guns that
were just trained on us like this as we walked in. And that was
kind of an unnerving feeling.
Harrar: I can imagine. So, is this at the time before the Biafran
War?
Thompson: Before. But they already had the guns and things, the security.
There was a lot of unrest. There was a lot of fighting in the
north, and people were being sent back on trains to the east and
being pulled off and killed.
Harrar: So, were you there when the war broke out?
Thompson: We were there. We have pictures of that Independence Day parade
where they declared independence, and then the women and
children were all evacuated.
Harrar: Including yourself?
Thompson: Yes.
Harrar: And what was that like?
Thompson: Oh, that was a nightmare. We knew it might be coming. They'd
told us that there was a possibility, and I think we had 2 days'
notice. We were allowed to take one carry-on, and I packed all
our pictures and a couple changes of clothes for our son, who by
then was a year and a half. And I was 8 months' pregnant. And we
drove to Port Harcourt and loaded the plane. I mean loaded it.
Every woman had a child on her lap. There were not enough seats
for every person. We were flown to Lagos. And there we waited.
We had thought that we would be flying out immediately,
but it was during the Six-Day War in Israel, and planes were all
being diverted over there, so we had to wait for a plane. We
stayed with a family in the smallpox program in Lagos. They were
incredibly good to us.
And then one night maybe 9, 10 o'clock, came word that a
plane was on its way, and we went to the airport. We were all
women with kids, and we were in the airport all night waiting
for this plane. And early in the morning, the plane arrived. And
thank and food goodness for Bill Shoemaker [William Shoemaker].
He carried water and food around all night. I don't know if I
would have made it otherwise.
We got on the plane, and we flew to Monrovia for
refueling. We were not allowed to disembark. On this plane, I
think everybody had a seat. But we'd had nothing to eat. When we
left Monrovia, we sat on the airstrip there for what seemed like
2 or 3 hours, but my memory might not be right. When we got in
the air again, they announced that because the pilot would now
have too many hours to fly to New York, we would be diverted to
Puerto Rico. So we flew to Puerto Rico, and because it was a US
port of entry, we all had to disembark and go through customs.
Here we were. I'm pregnant; I'm carrying my son, carrying
a suitcase, and I remember the guy says, "Put it up there. I
want to look at it. "And I was so tired, and I said, "If you
want to look at it, you have to put it up there."
And then we loaded the plane again and flew to New York.
We got into New York about midnight. By now it was about 23
hours' travel time, and we were just dead. Things at the airport
were closed as far as booking oncoming, ongoing flights. So
somebody met us, and they took us all to a hotel. When we got to
the hotel, they had been told that there were refugees coming,
and they had to put at least 2 families to a room. And I said,
"You know, I'm not going to do that. I know that USAID [US
Agency for International Development] is going to pay you for a
room for every single person, and I want my own room," which I
got.
But then, in the morning, we got up and went back to the
airport. We spent most of the day in the airport because we had
to go there to make our ongoing reservations, and we finally got
into Minneapolis the next night. It was an experience I wouldn't
want to repeat.
Harrar: So from the time you boarded the first plane, when you were
evacuated, until the time you arrived. . .
Thompson: In New York, it was 23 hours.
Harrar: Twenty-three hours. No food, and with a baby. And 8 months'
pregnant.
Thompson: Yes.
Harrar: Amazing.
Thompson: I mean, there were other people who had 2 or 3 children, you
know, maybe an infant or a toddler.
Harrar: So where was your husband during this time?
Thompson: The men were not evacuated. They stayed behind. They stayed in
Enugu, and then they eventually went to a meeting. I don't even
remember where it was; it might even have been out of Nigeria.
And when they came back, they did not let them go back to Enugu.
But Dave didn't come back to the States until August. He got
back a week before our daughter was born.
Harrar: So, how long were you actually there in Africa, the 2 of you?
Thompson: Well, we were in Enugu 8 months, and then we came back here and
we were down here at CDC from August to January, and then we
went to Liberia.
Harrar: Okay.
Thompson: And then we were in Liberia for 2-1/2 years.
Harrar: Other than the stories that you just told me about war breaking
out and everything, were there any other unique occurrences that
you could tell me about that you went through, either then or
when you went back to Liberia.
Thompson: Well, there were a lot of experiences. Of course, we were in
Liberia much longer.
There was a women's medical auxiliary, which I was part
of, and that was Nigerian expats, so that was a great
experience. With that auxiliary, we were invited to have tea
with President Tubman up on the top floor of his palace. That
was a very unique experience, marvelous.
When I was involved with this medical auxiliary, one time
we were setting up a display of some kind; I don't remember what
it was for. I left to go home and change clothes to come back
for whatever the event was. It was very close to the president's
palace, and I pulled out onto the road, and all of a sudden the
president's security came zooming by, and I had an accident with
them. Oh, my goodness. They didn't have sirens or lights or
anything. They just came zooming by with some dignitary and his
whole, huge entourage. Wherever he went, it was with a huge
entourage. But it was like, well, whenever there's an accident
with that, it's always the expat's fault.
Harrar: Of course.
Thompson: But it turned out that that was one advantage of working with
the government. They took care of everything. But, oh, it was
very unnerving for me to realize what had happened.
One highlight was our involvement with an orphanage there.
We lived initially in a duplex. A couple lived on the other side
of us. He was American, and she was Italian. He worked under
USAID as an advisor to the treasury. They became very good
friends. And she had some connection somehow. So with her, then,
we got involved in helping out in an orphanage.
I was asking our oldest son, just this week before we
came, if he had any memories of Liberia, because he was 4 when
we left. And he said, "I do." And one of the things he mentioned
was the orphanage. He said, "I remember going there, and the
kids, and playing with them." It was kind of interesting.
Harrar: What kind of things did you do there?
Thompson: It was a small orphanage. It was a lady and her son, and they
had maybe 6, 8 kids. We would take them to the beach, have a
picnic. I remember we helped get them a washing machine; they
did all their wash by hand. We helped out with clothes, had them
over to the house, just those kinds of things.
Her name was Eva Deline [phonetic]. I can't remember her
son's name.
Harrar: I'm sure she remembers you.
How do you think this participation in the smallpox
project changed your life?
Thompson: Oh, as far as our life together, I think it totally changed the
direction of our lives. We had been interested in going overseas
to work. I think we had thought in terms of probably working
with a mission in a hospital. But Dave, after working with this
program, was just convinced that there was nothing to do but
public health. So we came back and he got an MPH [Master's in
Public Health] at Hopkins, and then he did a pediatric
residency, and then we went back and worked in public health for
12 years in Chad.
One other real highlight of being in Liberia was that
every Saturday morning we'd pack a lunch and we'd go to the
beach. It was just like having a vacation every week. We'd leave
maybe 10 in the morning and come back around dinnertime. That
was just marvelous. I said to Dave recently, "I wish we could do
that now."
We had a couple of incidents that happened at the beach.
Our daughter almost drowned. We were there with a number of
other people, and there was a lagoon on one side and the ocean.
Kids were playing in the lagoon, and we were playing cards. And
all of a sudden one of the women looked over and she said, "I
[unclear; pls fill in] Christen." And she was just floating. I
was sure she was dead. I didn't even get up. I was just shell-
shocked. My friend Ruth is an anesthetist, and she ran and
grabbed her, and Christen wasn't breathing. And Ruth turned her
over and hit her on the back, and water came out and she began
to breathe.
Harrar: Oh, my goodness, how frightening, how frightening.
Thompson: Yes. We kept a close eye on the kids after that.
Harrar: And how fortunate that the woman was there who could do that.
Thompson: Yes, she just glanced over, ran and got her. Dave ran too,
but Ruth got there first.
Harrar: And how old was your daughter at the time?
Thompson: I don't think she was a year, but she was walking.
Harrar: So she doesn't remember.
Thompson: No, no, no.
Harrar: I'm sure you've reminded her of that incident.
Thompson: You know, I don't know that we've talked about it. When I
realized only the day before yesterday that I was going to be
interviewed, I said, "Dave, I don't remember anything. I don't
have anything to say. "He said, "Oh, you remember way more than
you think." So I don't know that we've actually talked about it
with her. But I need to write some of these things down so we
can.
Harrar: You mentioned that there were a couple of incidents at the
beach. That was one. Do you remember the other?
Thompson: Yes. Our son got stung by a Portuguese man-of-war. Often there
would be many of them-it must have had to do with the weather.
They would wash up on the beach, and we would be really trying
to be careful. But one just got all totally wrapped around him.
But where we went to the beach was at a mission station and they
had a hospital. We just grabbed him and actually ran up there
with him. And he remembers that very vividly.
Harrar: I can imagine that was incredibly painful for him.
What was the toughest problem that you faced, and how did
you resolve it while you were there?
Thompson: Probably the hardest thing was that Dave was gone all the time,
especially in Nigeria. When we first got there, we kind of knew
it was going to be like that, but we didn't know anybody. Paula
Foege wasn't there yet. Mary Litchfield was there, but she lived
on the exact opposite side of town from me. That was our team.
And, yes. They would leave on Monday morning, and they'd come
back on Friday night. Sometimes they'd leave on Sunday afternoon
because there was a huge smallpox epidemic.
Fortunately, at that particular time, we were living in an
apartment, and so we got to know the couple upstairs, and that
helped. And, again, we had a stroller, and I walked and walked
and walked and walked.
One of the things I should mention is that in our
orientation in Atlanta we had been told that we should hire
house help, that we were giving somebody a job. But they told
all of us not to hire anybody without papers. Well, when we were
in Enugu, this guy showed up at the door one day. His name was
Patrick, and he wanted a job. He'd been to USAID and they had
sent him over, actually, to us. He'd worked in the north, and
he'd had to flee. And so I was very naive, and I asked him for
his papers, and he said, "I don't have any papers." And I said,
"Well, I don't know if I can hire you if you don't have papers."
He said, "Well, I worked for Americans in Kano," but he was Ibo,
so he'd then had to flee. And he said, "We fled without
anything." He said, "Just try me, and I will work. And if you
don't like me, you don't pay me." Of course he was just a
godsend. He was just incredibly hard-working. He wanted to do
everything. After we moved into our house, we would wake up in
the morning and we'd hear him moving furniture. All the floors
were washed before we got up. And I'd say, "Patrick, you don't
need to come so early." He'd say [unclear]. "I felt like saying,
"But I'm not." He was just an incredible guy.
And in Liberia, too, we just were so fortunate with house
help. We got a young guy who actually lived with an American
missionary family. They had left, and he was looking for work.
And our kids, their biggest treat for them, which was kind
of neat, was if Dave and I wanted to go out in the evening. All
I had to tell the children was, "You can have rice with Samuel,
rice and ketchup," and they were thrilled. It was weird.
Harrar: Did you have to do any of the cooking, the shopping?
Thompson: I did the cooking and shopping. I loved doing that. I loved
going to market. I still love going to market. I go to farmers'
market all the time because it reminds me of Africa.
And for Patrick, that was very hard. He wanted to cook.
And I said, "But what would I do, Patrick, if you cook? You do
everything else." But he had done it for other people. When we
were evacuated and he got to cook for Dave, he was delighted.
Harrar: What kind of impact or what difference do you think it would
have made if they had said, "Okay, Dr. Thompson, you and the men
or the CDC employees, whatever, are going to go over, but the
families have to stay back in the States?"
Thompson: Oh, it would have been horrible, horrible. I think it's
important both ways. It's important for the men or the employee,
whichever spouse that is, to have family there and someone to
come home to on weekends. But I also think it's very important
for the family because otherwise that's an entire part of their
lives that you're not part of.
Harrar: Right, right.
Thompson: That would be a big hurdle, I think. There are some broken
marriages anyway, but I think there would have been more.
Harrar: Is there anything that you would have changed if you had to do
it all over again?
Thompson: I hadn't thought about that. I don't know. I would have to
think about that.
Of course, in our later experience, we lived in a very
small town, and I was very much more involved with African women
and really got to know them as friends, just as the African
women I got to know in Liberia were the lady who had the
orphanage and then the wives of the African physicians who were
in the medical auxiliary.
And also my neighbor in Liberia. I wouldn't say I got to
know her well, but she came over almost every day, and she'd be
in my kitchen while I worked. She said, "I want my kids to play
here because I want them to be smart." So her kids were at our
house a lot, and it was great. I wanted my kids to have that
experience of playing with African kids.
So it's funny. Shortly before we were leaving Liberia, she
threw out her old mortar. I don't know if you've seen them.
They're about this high and they pound their grain.
Harrar: Oh, yes.
Thompson: She threw it out and got a new one, and she wanted me to come
and see her new mortar that she'd gotten at the market. And I
asked her if I could have her old one. It was mended with metal,
where it had cracked. She said, "You don't want that. You can go
buy a new one at the market."
I said, "No, I want this one because I'll take it home and
then I'll think of you every time I look at it in my house." And
she just laughed. She thought it was the craziest thing. She
said, "I don't understand white people." That's what she said.
But I still have it in my house. I have it in my front
hallway. And I do think of her all the time. I wonder what
happened to her kids, where they grew up.
Harrar: So what impact do you think that the experience had on your
children? I know they were young, but . . .
Thompson: It's hard to separate this from their other African experience,
but it had a huge impact on them, and they are incredibly
grateful.
The son who was born in Liberia is now in the process of
adopting. And when he and his wife decided to adopt, he said, "I
wonder if we could adopt from Liberia." So they are going in
about 3 weeks to get these children. [show's photo]
Harrar: Oh, how precious!
Thompson: These are sisters.
Harrar: Wonderful picture. And the ages are probably . . .
Thompson: Four and 1.
Harrar: Four and 1. So 2 sisters from Liberia.
Thompson: Yes.
Harrar: And they're going to be adopted and come to the States when?
Thompson: The beginning of August. And I'm sure they would never have
gone to Liberia if my son hadn't been born there, but he said,
"If we're going to adopt, and possibly overseas, then let's see
if there's any possibility of getting somebody from Liberia."
Harrar: Well, they're just precious. You're going to enjoy them.
Thompson: Oh, yes. We know that, and we're thrilled. So they're actually
traveling to Liberia now to get them.
Harrar: And what about your daughter? Obviously, your son was affected.
Thompson: Yes. I guess it's hard to separate our experience in Chad from
our experience with the smallpox program. All the children
finished high school in Africa. So they just have a different
world view. They have an incredible interest in international
things. Living in Africa had a huge impact on them. And they
have said many times, "I'm so glad we grew up overseas."
And our son, David, still maintains contact with an
American friend, another expat kid, who was his friend there
Harrar: So, lifetime friendships.
Thompson: Yes, definitely. And all of them had very close lifetime
friendships from high school. They went to high school in
Nigeria even though we lived in Chad; it went to a mission
school, but it was incredibly international.
One of our daughter's classmates in high school, who
turned out to be a very good friend, was from eastern Nigeria.
And it turned out that she was born the same week that our
daughter Christen was born, in the same hospital that Christen
would have been born in had we not been evacuated.
Harrar: Wow.
Thompson: And they ended up classmates 14 years later.
Harrar: How amazing.
Thompson: Yes. Isn't that amazing? It is a small world, a very small
world.
Harrar: Is there anything else that you would like to add?
Thompson: Not that I can think of.
It was a good experience. We have great expat friends. And
those friendships have lasted the years.
Harrar: Well, I want to thank you for your time. This has been very
helpful for us.
# # #
Joan Thompson Oral History
Joan Thompson interviewed by
Linda Harrar
July 14, 2006
Joan Thompson, wife of epidemiologist David Thompson, who served in Nigeria, Liberia, and Chad. Joan relates how it was to adjust to life in Eastern Nigeria, being 8 months pregnant and evacuating during the Biafra War, and life and friends in Liberia. Joan's husband continued with a career in public health and the family later moved to Chad.
